Jean-Pierre Robert interviews the Brazilian filmmaker Lucas Costanzi about his two documentaries inspired by Jungian thought: Theater of Shadows and In Search of the Self. Dubbed in English, these films explore the significance of the shadow and the inner journey that leads to our deepest self: a path that distances us from the influences of the surrounding collective.
French version of this interview
On vimeo: Theater of Shadows & In Search of the Self
(Trailer, to rent, or to buy)
Jean-Pierre Robert: What impressed me in your two documentaries is the alternation between the images of the world in which we live and to which we are subjected, and the need, as a counterpoint, to return to oneself.
Lucas Costanzi: For me, this dynamic between the external world and the return to oneself is essential. We live immersed in a constant flow of stimuli, information, and demands that distance us from our inner world, and I believe it is in this counterpoint that we find a path to greater authenticity and meaning.
In both Theater of Shadows and In Search of the Self, I wanted to show how we are influenced by collective forces — social, political, and cultural — and how, without conscious effort of reflection and integration, we risk losing ourselves in this whirlwind. A return to oneself does not mean isolation or alienation, but a necessary encounter to better deal with the world and others.
Your first documentary explores the shadow, which represents everything that is unconscious within us, and which emphasizes the need for its integration, even if this can only be partial.
The idea of addressing the shadow came from a personal concern about what was happening on the Brazilian (as well as the broader Western) political scene. On the one hand, the rise of a resentful and angry right wing. On the other, the spread of identity politics and issues imported from the American Democratic Party by a left wing without a strategic conception of the country. These two political poles have divided Brazil, and each group blames the other for the country’s ills. I found in Jungian shadow theory a way to understand what was happening: the projection of the collective shadow.
Every projection has the potential to return to us what we truly are, because the projected content belongs to us. My intention with this film was to try to show that we must lose the presumptuous innocence of believing that we are enlightened beings, and instead engage in dialogue with our shadow. Only then can we realize the harm we cause to ourselves and to the world, and at least have a chance to change. If this dialogue does not occur, our shadows will act freely, and evil will remain at large.
Many scenes illustrate the complexity of today’s world: its commercialization, its agitation, the fragments of daily life, and the ever-present violence.
We are immersed in a culture that privileges results, performance, and a persona built for social media. And the more persona, the more shadow. The more we follow cultural standards and conform to the expectations of the group we belong to, the more we automate life and absolve ourselves of the responsibility to make decisions. This transforms us into automatons. This culture favors unconsciousness, distancing us from dialogue with the shadow and the path to Self.
If we live seeking social approval, dissociated from ourselves and following patterns imposed by culture, we lose the ability to process our inner content with complexity and authenticity. We become bound to our egoic movements and lose sight of something greater, the totality in which we are immersed. This diminishes us.
If we lack the capacity to symbolize and work through our content, we become more aggressive. The violence present today comes precisely from our unconsciousness, from the attempt to blame others for the ills of the world, from seeking scapegoats and freeing ourselves from the responsibility of facing the mirror.
You give voice to many Brazilian Jungian analysts, and I can see how their words resonate with universal issues, while offering paths of reflection applicable to each of us.
When we speak of something human, archetypal, national borders disappear. It is true that each culture expresses its images in distinct ways, depending on time and place. However, the content itself, archetypically speaking, is the same. Using Platonic language, forms are unchangeable and eternal; only their manifestations vary depending on our participation in them. When we speak of the shadow, we are talking about something archetypal that belongs to the human psyche and is therefore universal.
Brazil is a peripheral country on the world stage, which brings us advantages and disadvantages. Those who have had a good education here are familiar with the culture of central countries: we read the great French, American, and English writers, the great German and European philosophers in general. But we are also fortunate to know the great Brazilian writers and philosophers, often unknown to other countries. I see this as a richness, an opportunity to develop a more creative outlook on the world.
In my productions, I strive to connect with highly educated individuals to offer the audience powerful content that can provoke deep reflections about themselves and their position in the collective. I have the perhaps pretentious ambition to show the world a Brazil of high culture, a Brazil of thought. Very different from the one reduced to international clichés of the beach, football, and carnival.
In In Search of the Self, you put Jungian psychology and Viktor Frankl’s psychology into perspective. Could you introduce us to the latter and explain how it shares the same goal of self-discovery?
Viktor Frankl’s logotherapy is the psychology of the meaning of life. And meaning, for Frankl, is value. His psychology moves away from psychologism and is directed toward the world. According to him, one finds meaning when one steps out of oneself and opens up to the world. It is in this tension between being and the world that one discovers values that point to one’s dignity.
These values are not subjective, but objective: goals to be achieved and realized, bringing meaning to life. According to Frankl, we are capable of recognizing these values that exist in the world in things themselves, thanks to the human noetic capacity, which he called the spiritual instance.
Frankl points out three paths to finding meaning:
- Creative values – what we dedicate ourselves to: work, something we create and strive to accomplish.
- Experiential values – the encounter with someone, the relationship with a child, the enjoyment of a sunset; experiences that make us feel life.
- Attitudinal values – our attitude toward the world concretizes a value. Even in the face of suffering, we can find meaning through our attitudes.
For Frankl, happiness and pleasure are consequences of meaning. They are consequences of the encounter with and realization of values.
Frankl and Jung have distinct concepts of the human being, but there are points of convergence. One of them is openness to the other. Jung is often interpreted as an author who turns inward toward the labyrinths of the unconscious, but it is crucial to recognize that the path of individuation is a psychological reality that always includes the other. We must understand the connection between the personal ego and the collective Self.
You show how far we passively witness dehumanization, accepting barbarism as a form of entertainment.
Especially in the moment we are living, this seems even more evident to me. Wars in Europe and the Middle East are broadcast from all angles, in 4K. Accompanied by an action soundtrack, they seem more like a Hollywood adventure film. We almost expect Arnold Schwarzenegger to appear with a bazooka to solve the problem.
It is the banality of evil. Here in Brazil, the news of crimes is so frequent and constant that we have become accustomed to the absurd. On YouTube, channels proliferate where police officers in action stage and sensationalize their interventions – all while monetizing them. Sensationalist TV channels show only tragedies and crimes. These channels exist because people watch them. This seems to me a symptom that society is sick and that the search for something higher, for a connection with the whole, for human dignity, is drifting further away.
But there is another way. Jung called it individuation, the path to the Self. Frankl called it self-transcendence, the openness to the other.
You conclude on a positive note: that of a life dedicated to the search for meaning, in the full and total acceptance of our destiny.
Personally, I am in the phase Jung called « mid-life, » when we begin to reinterpret the things we did in the first half of life. Increasingly, I feel that our life is special and that we should not waste it on egoic movements dictated by society or consumerism. On the contrary, we must better ourselves, aim higher, and take responsibility for what is ours and what surrounds us.
Someone who develops themselves, improves the world and offers society a better human being. So that, at the time of our death, we are able to look back and see that it was worth it.
Interview conducted by Jean-Pierre Robert
translation by Lucas Costanzi
March 2025
Lucas Costanzi
Lucas Costanzi is a Brazilian documentary filmmaker. He directed the documentaries In Search of the Self (2025), Theater of Shadows (2022), Bellatrix (2019), and Tormenta (2015), as well as a TV series titled Conexão 360º. He is the founder of the production company Sabujo Filmes.
Lucas holds a degree in journalism from the Pontifical Catholic University of Brazil and a postgraduate degree in documentary filmmaking from ESEC (École Supérieure d’Études Cinématographiques) in Paris.